Arne Slot has not had a good season. What is his standing against his Premier League contemporaries? Could the Dutchman be the worst coach in the division?
It's been disappointing to witness supporters' not supporting Arne this season. A big reason I was drawn to supporting Liverpool is the culture of the club (we stick together through the storm ... YNWA and all). This season, there has been a tragedy and many, many difficulties. You would think that, unless Arne said or did something massively wrong, that he would earn our support through this tough time. It's been quite the opposite.
I don't expect talk radio or social media to be kind. Talksport, twitter & other social media are a cesspool of mindless & often abusive venting. Normally, the level-headed & sensible supporter-created media will offer a mature view, with emotions balanced by fact-based criticisms, a discussion of mitigating circumstances & a reminder of past accomplishments at times when confidence ebbs. In contrast, TAW produced podcasts in the middle of the season, with participants advocating for Arne's removal & replacement by the unproven Xabi Alonso. This was just a few weeks after our highest-paid player threw a fit because the manager benched him for his poor performance, our 3rd highest paid player broke his leg. Instead of support, they piled on as if replacing Arne is going to fix those and other underlying problems this season.
Don't get me wrong...Arne definitely has a lot to learn as a coach at this level but, to those want to dismiss him, hasn't he shown us a lot we want in a manager?, i.e.
- a track record of overachieving with fewer resources ... in the Eredivisie & last season
- he can adapt his preferred approach in-game & over a season (tactical, player availability)
- he can help players to develop & improve
- he's a leader in times of change (replacing a legend, last season's contract disputes)
- he can work effectively in FSG's model (no transfers year 1, none in winter, selling Lucho)
Why don't we properly consider the degree of difficulties this season when evaluating Arne? Why do we think that changing the manager will fix underperformance from Mo/Macca/Ibou, fitness/injuries to important players, missed transfers & the impact of massive player turnover? Why do we ignore the exceptional performances this season? Why are we so eager to ignore the good and rare qualities he has proven to have? Why don't people think he will learn from this & improve as a manager next season? Why do people rate Xabi Alonso or others ahead of Arne for no objective reason?
Judging from supporter media, the answer to these questions seems like: (1) he's not got Jurgen's charisma, (2) he's too conservative in his tactics, (3) he doesn't start a 17yo who's talented but is not yet ready for the physical demands of men's football.
(sorry for the long rant Andrew and this is not a reaction to your piece, mate)
While I agree with much you have to say, so much of this seasons football under Slot is just bad. Boringly bad. I can accept injuries removing many of the parts this season, I can accept him not trusting the reserve players as much as should be needed given our smaller squad, I've been supporting long enough to have seen all this before at one time or another.
But, in any successful club, there's a requirement that the manager can perform some degree of alchemy and combine the resources at his disposal to make the players greater than the sum of their parts.
I don't think that can be said to have happened this season. If anything, it's more that the team is playing below the sum of their parts.
Watching us play is mind numbing, imo, even Rodgers wasn't as bad as this, you'd have to go back to Hodgsons days to find similar. We're disjointed, unconnected and disorganised, all facets that the manager is, or should, be in control of.
And I hate myself for saying it but there's much more in this team than Slot's currently getting out of them and that needs to change and quickly.
Arne's tactics last season were definitely less front-footed & more risk-averse. Hard to disagree that is a less exciting approach.
But agree to disagree in the alchemy, mate. A manager should be like a chef, i.e. able to create a great meal from available ingredients that is better than the individual ingredients itself. I just don't think he's been given good enough ingredients.
That’s a really important point. And he wouldn’t have the real license to take the time to deal with it in a role like his. I don’t know when that would happen either?
Maybe the fact that our season ends early this year is a blessing for the long term mental health of the team? Especially with some tournament being played in the break.
Yeah, as much as they're presumably a tight knit group, bonded by what they've been through, some time apart might help. The squad will evolve again with the exits of Robertson and Salah too... have to assume it will be easier for new signings this summer than last because they won't be walking into a horrendous situation.
A couple of comments on the squad. Firstly, wages and squad value count for little if the most costly ones are out injured. Secondly, the world class (and therefore costly) players you do have are obviously less impactful if there are gaping holes in the squad. Wirtz have no effective wide players all season is a case in point.
As I've posted elsewhere, I believe that the xG difference in the Palace match was misleading.
From the Opta xG map, it appears as if 1.6-1.7 of Palace's xG came from Richards' header (~0.7) in which he's facing 180 degrees away from goal, Munoz's goal (~0.5) after Woodman was injured and more than half the players expected play to be stopped, and Larsen's shot that hit both posts (~0.5) after he was clearly offside but not flagged, with no VAR correction since it wasn't a goal.
Realistically, those 3 shots might add up to a half-chance, not nearly 2 goals of threat created. Since that accounts for about 2/3 of Palace's xG, I would hesitate to draw any conclusions about tactics, etc. as a result.
The impact of Jota's death on the squad has been discussed widely. Less discussed is the impact on the new signings. This time last year Frimpong, Hugo, Isak and Wirtz would have been in talks with a title winning team that came the closest to beating the Champions League winner. They would be excited about their future and likely chomping at the bit to get to Anfield.
They then got on a plane and arrived at Anfield and within weeks were part of a dressing room in mourning. Even with the best counselling services, they would have felt like outsiders and as spectres at a feast.
Their new colleagues were grieving for someone they barely knew. Integrating so many new players takes time and usually the team doesn't gel properly for about a year under the best circumstances. So if the team look like they haven't gelled or play like strangers this is a likely factor.
The conversation above between Noel and Stephen above is one that we have had amongst ourselves here in our neck of the woods.
The play on the field has been shockingly poor. We don’t seem particularly well coached. Individual players do not seem to be kicking on.
But didn’t we all say in July “I don’t know what to expect this season” after the Jota tragedy?
Still, we surely didn’t dream of this season’s performances. We rarely look the better team on the pitch—Saturday included.
My view is to stick with the manager. His CV is impressive and you do not become an amateur over night.
If we cannot believe what we have seen this year, I think we need to consider the only unbelievable thing that happened this year as the biggest reason?
We can all accept that the Eredivisie is lower standard, obviously. But Slot's career arc goes from almost winning the title with AZ, winning it then setting a new club points record while also getting to a European final with Feyenoord, then winning the Premier League.
It's part of why I take the club at their word that they're happy to retain Slot. He's had one bad season in the six of his career, it shouldn't outweigh the positives entirely.
I’m not going to pretend I’m a statistician here, but there are two things that are instantly noticeable when you watch Liverpool this season and neither are good news for Slot.
- out of possession, there are massive gaps all over the pitch, and opponents can play through us easily
- when we win the ball back, we cannot counterattack effectively
Neither of these things happened last year let alone under Klopp. Leaving out all talk of the squad or the summer transfer window, it’s these two things that leap out at me as the source of most of our problems this season.
Thank you, Andrew, for this Gargantuan effort! My confirmation bias is blinding me so some data and analysis is appreciated.
I believe that being Man U or LFC manager is much harder than manage Bournemouth or Villa. Teams are not playing Fulham the way they play a giant.
Slot is not a bad coach per se (Hodgson did miracles with Fulham, Moyes is once again making Everton a respectable team, sort of). My current understanding is that he is a bad fit for LFC and with every game his value is diminishing further.
I’m not convinced about Slot we are going into ten hag territory from the other, wins a trophy (Slot get us into CL), ten hag awarded new contract( don’t think Slot will qualify for a new contract) ten hag spends a shed full of money, Slot does likewise, result - teams get worse and ten hag is sacked 2/3 months into the season.That could be us next season more money spent on big names but no plan, structure, or identity. We are faceless, facts we are currently the 4th best team in the league….but are we? I don’t think so, the table doesn’t lie……sorry Slot.
I'm interested who you think are better if Liverpool aren't the fourth best team. Arsenal and City are a given but I'm not sure there are two others who are definitely better than the Reds right now (or at the very least, not by a considerable margin).
Tbh if you take out the first 6 league games of the season and the mini run around November/December we have been consistently mediocre. The table doesn’t lie admittedly, but for the stature and resources of this club we have been bang average and although I’ve only been to 4 games this season we are not worth watching and I think most fans would agree with that. 18 games lost this season (is it 10 in the league) should indicate something is not right, in fact a lot is not right, but come August we will looking forward to a better season 🤞🤞
It's been disappointing to witness supporters' not supporting Arne this season. A big reason I was drawn to supporting Liverpool is the culture of the club (we stick together through the storm ... YNWA and all). This season, there has been a tragedy and many, many difficulties. You would think that, unless Arne said or did something massively wrong, that he would earn our support through this tough time. It's been quite the opposite.
I don't expect talk radio or social media to be kind. Talksport, twitter & other social media are a cesspool of mindless & often abusive venting. Normally, the level-headed & sensible supporter-created media will offer a mature view, with emotions balanced by fact-based criticisms, a discussion of mitigating circumstances & a reminder of past accomplishments at times when confidence ebbs. In contrast, TAW produced podcasts in the middle of the season, with participants advocating for Arne's removal & replacement by the unproven Xabi Alonso. This was just a few weeks after our highest-paid player threw a fit because the manager benched him for his poor performance, our 3rd highest paid player broke his leg. Instead of support, they piled on as if replacing Arne is going to fix those and other underlying problems this season.
Don't get me wrong...Arne definitely has a lot to learn as a coach at this level but, to those want to dismiss him, hasn't he shown us a lot we want in a manager?, i.e.
- a track record of overachieving with fewer resources ... in the Eredivisie & last season
- he can adapt his preferred approach in-game & over a season (tactical, player availability)
- he can help players to develop & improve
- he's a leader in times of change (replacing a legend, last season's contract disputes)
- he can work effectively in FSG's model (no transfers year 1, none in winter, selling Lucho)
Why don't we properly consider the degree of difficulties this season when evaluating Arne? Why do we think that changing the manager will fix underperformance from Mo/Macca/Ibou, fitness/injuries to important players, missed transfers & the impact of massive player turnover? Why do we ignore the exceptional performances this season? Why are we so eager to ignore the good and rare qualities he has proven to have? Why don't people think he will learn from this & improve as a manager next season? Why do people rate Xabi Alonso or others ahead of Arne for no objective reason?
Judging from supporter media, the answer to these questions seems like: (1) he's not got Jurgen's charisma, (2) he's too conservative in his tactics, (3) he doesn't start a 17yo who's talented but is not yet ready for the physical demands of men's football.
(sorry for the long rant Andrew and this is not a reaction to your piece, mate)
While I agree with much you have to say, so much of this seasons football under Slot is just bad. Boringly bad. I can accept injuries removing many of the parts this season, I can accept him not trusting the reserve players as much as should be needed given our smaller squad, I've been supporting long enough to have seen all this before at one time or another.
But, in any successful club, there's a requirement that the manager can perform some degree of alchemy and combine the resources at his disposal to make the players greater than the sum of their parts.
I don't think that can be said to have happened this season. If anything, it's more that the team is playing below the sum of their parts.
Watching us play is mind numbing, imo, even Rodgers wasn't as bad as this, you'd have to go back to Hodgsons days to find similar. We're disjointed, unconnected and disorganised, all facets that the manager is, or should, be in control of.
And I hate myself for saying it but there's much more in this team than Slot's currently getting out of them and that needs to change and quickly.
Arne's tactics last season were definitely less front-footed & more risk-averse. Hard to disagree that is a less exciting approach.
But agree to disagree in the alchemy, mate. A manager should be like a chef, i.e. able to create a great meal from available ingredients that is better than the individual ingredients itself. I just don't think he's been given good enough ingredients.
Hear hear
No need to apologise - loads of good points.
I’d like to see another season for slot without the preseason tragedy. I think it’s a meaningful factor. It will be less relevant next year I think.
All that said, I wonder if a different coach would be further away from the tragedy as well (as unfair as that is).
Slot will be grieving too, we mustn't overlook that. Diogo did his part in helping him win the Premier League at the first attempt.
That’s a really important point. And he wouldn’t have the real license to take the time to deal with it in a role like his. I don’t know when that would happen either?
Maybe the fact that our season ends early this year is a blessing for the long term mental health of the team? Especially with some tournament being played in the break.
Yeah, as much as they're presumably a tight knit group, bonded by what they've been through, some time apart might help. The squad will evolve again with the exits of Robertson and Salah too... have to assume it will be easier for new signings this summer than last because they won't be walking into a horrendous situation.
A couple of comments on the squad. Firstly, wages and squad value count for little if the most costly ones are out injured. Secondly, the world class (and therefore costly) players you do have are obviously less impactful if there are gaping holes in the squad. Wirtz have no effective wide players all season is a case in point.
Agreed, though the wages graph in the article is for players who have started league games this season, so it does reflect the available talent.
Isn’t it Slot’s job to make sure the players don’t get injured?
As I've posted elsewhere, I believe that the xG difference in the Palace match was misleading.
From the Opta xG map, it appears as if 1.6-1.7 of Palace's xG came from Richards' header (~0.7) in which he's facing 180 degrees away from goal, Munoz's goal (~0.5) after Woodman was injured and more than half the players expected play to be stopped, and Larsen's shot that hit both posts (~0.5) after he was clearly offside but not flagged, with no VAR correction since it wasn't a goal.
Realistically, those 3 shots might add up to a half-chance, not nearly 2 goals of threat created. Since that accounts for about 2/3 of Palace's xG, I would hesitate to draw any conclusions about tactics, etc. as a result.
The impact of Jota's death on the squad has been discussed widely. Less discussed is the impact on the new signings. This time last year Frimpong, Hugo, Isak and Wirtz would have been in talks with a title winning team that came the closest to beating the Champions League winner. They would be excited about their future and likely chomping at the bit to get to Anfield.
They then got on a plane and arrived at Anfield and within weeks were part of a dressing room in mourning. Even with the best counselling services, they would have felt like outsiders and as spectres at a feast.
Their new colleagues were grieving for someone they barely knew. Integrating so many new players takes time and usually the team doesn't gel properly for about a year under the best circumstances. So if the team look like they haven't gelled or play like strangers this is a likely factor.
The conversation above between Noel and Stephen above is one that we have had amongst ourselves here in our neck of the woods.
The play on the field has been shockingly poor. We don’t seem particularly well coached. Individual players do not seem to be kicking on.
But didn’t we all say in July “I don’t know what to expect this season” after the Jota tragedy?
Still, we surely didn’t dream of this season’s performances. We rarely look the better team on the pitch—Saturday included.
My view is to stick with the manager. His CV is impressive and you do not become an amateur over night.
If we cannot believe what we have seen this year, I think we need to consider the only unbelievable thing that happened this year as the biggest reason?
We can all accept that the Eredivisie is lower standard, obviously. But Slot's career arc goes from almost winning the title with AZ, winning it then setting a new club points record while also getting to a European final with Feyenoord, then winning the Premier League.
It's part of why I take the club at their word that they're happy to retain Slot. He's had one bad season in the six of his career, it shouldn't outweigh the positives entirely.
I’m not going to pretend I’m a statistician here, but there are two things that are instantly noticeable when you watch Liverpool this season and neither are good news for Slot.
- out of possession, there are massive gaps all over the pitch, and opponents can play through us easily
- when we win the ball back, we cannot counterattack effectively
Neither of these things happened last year let alone under Klopp. Leaving out all talk of the squad or the summer transfer window, it’s these two things that leap out at me as the source of most of our problems this season.
Josh Williams' latest article is really good on Liverpool out of possession:
https://distancecovered.substack.com/p/bulletproof-or-bust
Thank you, Andrew, for this Gargantuan effort! My confirmation bias is blinding me so some data and analysis is appreciated.
I believe that being Man U or LFC manager is much harder than manage Bournemouth or Villa. Teams are not playing Fulham the way they play a giant.
Slot is not a bad coach per se (Hodgson did miracles with Fulham, Moyes is once again making Everton a respectable team, sort of). My current understanding is that he is a bad fit for LFC and with every game his value is diminishing further.
Once again, thank you!
I’m not convinced about Slot we are going into ten hag territory from the other, wins a trophy (Slot get us into CL), ten hag awarded new contract( don’t think Slot will qualify for a new contract) ten hag spends a shed full of money, Slot does likewise, result - teams get worse and ten hag is sacked 2/3 months into the season.That could be us next season more money spent on big names but no plan, structure, or identity. We are faceless, facts we are currently the 4th best team in the league….but are we? I don’t think so, the table doesn’t lie……sorry Slot.
I'm interested who you think are better if Liverpool aren't the fourth best team. Arsenal and City are a given but I'm not sure there are two others who are definitely better than the Reds right now (or at the very least, not by a considerable margin).
Tbh if you take out the first 6 league games of the season and the mini run around November/December we have been consistently mediocre. The table doesn’t lie admittedly, but for the stature and resources of this club we have been bang average and although I’ve only been to 4 games this season we are not worth watching and I think most fans would agree with that. 18 games lost this season (is it 10 in the league) should indicate something is not right, in fact a lot is not right, but come August we will looking forward to a better season 🤞🤞