Thanks to Paul for this. Watch out more posts from him in the future...
It's an interesting comparison. I think Slot has shown he can survive the difficult post-title season elsewhere (his PSV side won more points, a club record, the year after winning the Eredivisie) but it's obviously harder in England.
I remain convinced that FSG won't want to ditch Slot either. Lots riding on the rest of the season, obviously.
See that many people don't agree with the comparison, which is fine. For Liverpool's sake, hope that the trust in Slot turns out to be well founded and Liverpool get back to winning things and playing consistently well.
Yet what I've tried to do is show that winning a title does not make a manager right in everything that he does. Or, at least, that there have been other managers who achieved immediate success but failed to live up to that.
The context that has been referred to in the article does provide some cover for the manager but I'm still wary that Liverpool are hiding behind them a bit too much. Tactically, Liverpool have been found out far too often this season. Again, not a problem if others don't agree.
As for Champions League, I did not focus on that because there's a limit as to how much I can cram in. Even so, it is the competition in which Liverpool were trashed 4-0 at home in one of the worst performances I've ever seen Liverpool play (echoes of the 6-1 defeat at Stoke). And, at the risk of invoking people's ire, dare I say that level of competition isn't as high. After all, even Spurs have done pretty well in the first stage.
Sorry but for me that is a really really poor piece of writing and shouldn’t be anywhere near your Substack which is true quality.
The sentence ‘But at what point do explanations become convenient cover rather than genuine context?’
The explanations are genuine context and do explain why Liverpool’s season is evolving in the way it has. They are not excuses; they are facts and need to be treated as such.
So, for me, this chap is another clickbait doom monger who is not worth listening to when he points out that there are numerous explanations for the current predicament and then promptly chooses to ignore them.
Oh, and, of course, we’ve only just finished 3rd in the Champions League group stage, which he chooses to ignore in his note.
It's hardly click bait. I take your broad point, I think the explanations are context rather than cover personally. But I also think it's hard to argue with this paragraph:
"Liverpool are currently producing a points-per-game return closer to that of a bottom-half side. The football has grown predictable. The same issues recur week after week without meaningful adjustment. Patterns that worked brilliantly last season now feel mechanical, easy to anticipate and easier still to defend"
As such, it's worth considering if Slot is the right man for the long term, even in the context of the difficulties faced this season.
I don’t think slot is doing himself any favours with his pressers at the minute, regurgitating his previous comments about low block and PSG and I thought it very unprofessional to call out Ramsay the way he did, in private maybe but not in public. Big shout to Endo for his spirit last night, defending that corner with I suspect a broken ankle, a real warrior, perhaps that helped the team spirit in seeing out the game
The Ramsay thing didn't bother me. If he doesn't think he's good enough and isn't going to use him then there's not much to be gained by sugar coating it.
But the repeated low block and set piece references feel more damaging in that they create narratives that can't help.
It is some what clickbait. It is a long form article that he has editorial ownership over. There have been consistent articles and podcasts this season from journalists and interviews with players some even recent. His facts aren't incorrect around points scored but heavily not given full context around the margins in relation to our solid xG difference.
I think we may have different definitions of clickbait... if it were titled 'SLOT HAS TO GO AND HERE'S WHY' then I would say it was but to me this is a look at a parallel from history that *may* have some validity to it. I suppose, as Paul has suggested, whether it contains enough context is debatable. Perhaps not. But I don't think it's designed solely to draw clicks or induce rage or whatever.
I definitely hear you. I think it's been a hard season for all involved with Liverpool. There has been so much negativity it's hard to see past some of it. Thinking about this particular article I feel is more representative of other managers going to big jobs and not scaling up. Allthough points haven't been won the underlying numbers are good. As Paul pointed out with the right tools I think the points will surely follow.
I don’t think it’s click bait at all and was an interesting read.
That doesn’t mean I agree with everything in it, and I do think ignoring the relative CL success this season is unfair on Slot, but it’s not a wild comparison either.
Basically winning a title doesn’t make a manager bulletproof and nor should it.
FSG will make their own minds up based on every factor and we will see at the end of the season whether that means a new contract, a partial show of faith but without a contract, or a new coach.
Apologies Andrew I just can’t go with this narrative that all blame lies at the feet of the manager.
Yes. It is a fact that the points per game in the premiership is not great. But it’s also a fact that the points per game in the Champions League is sensational. Truly sensational. So perhaps a balanced piece would reflect that and question why.
The answer to the why perhaps sits in the list of explanations given earlier in the piece which are then instantly dismissed to give the comparison between Arne Slot and the former AC Milan manager some context.
The suggestion and general narrative was that our manager has one plan, which is stale and been worked out by everyone. And yet the same clueless AS is now the only premiership manager to have defeated Sunderland on their patch this season.
The recent round table discussion with Richard Hughes really needs to be brought into these discussions in that the powers that be at LFC seem to be saying they know that they have not delivered for AS a balanced squad this season. We are toothless up font and I suspect that statistically you can prove that better than anyone. The Salah Gakpo contributions feel like they are non existent but the squad has no meaningful alternative to them. That cannot be AS’s fault as he is the defacto coach. Hughes, Edwards and Co recruit and provide the tools for him.
The round table discussion seems to suggest that they know the problems that sit within the squad and intend to deal with them but sometimes these things take a number of transfer windows.
Patience is what is needed to allow the new team to evolve. Such patience means not one or two games but one or two seasons. Good things take time.
So for me we should be championing what the team and manager are able to achieve this season given its context not giving air time to writing which tries to undermine them. There is so much of it out there and it all feels so self entitled as if LFC have a right to win or come close to winning the league every year.
What makes it great when you do win it is the pain and struggle and evolution to getting there. That’s where we are at right now. The pain, struggle and evolution period. Hopefully, Hughes, Edwards and all will stick to the path that their on and stay with Arne, despite the noise, and one or two years from now everyone will have something special to celebrate.
No need at all to apologise. All views are welcome, we'll never all agree on everything. And to reiterate, I'm closer to your view of this season than Paul appears to be, but I've had doubts about Slot. I assume almost all Liverpool fans have at some point this season. It feels reasonable to me to ask questions regarding some of the tactical decisions.
Thanks to Paul for this. Watch out more posts from him in the future...
It's an interesting comparison. I think Slot has shown he can survive the difficult post-title season elsewhere (his PSV side won more points, a club record, the year after winning the Eredivisie) but it's obviously harder in England.
I remain convinced that FSG won't want to ditch Slot either. Lots riding on the rest of the season, obviously.
See that many people don't agree with the comparison, which is fine. For Liverpool's sake, hope that the trust in Slot turns out to be well founded and Liverpool get back to winning things and playing consistently well.
Yet what I've tried to do is show that winning a title does not make a manager right in everything that he does. Or, at least, that there have been other managers who achieved immediate success but failed to live up to that.
The context that has been referred to in the article does provide some cover for the manager but I'm still wary that Liverpool are hiding behind them a bit too much. Tactically, Liverpool have been found out far too often this season. Again, not a problem if others don't agree.
As for Champions League, I did not focus on that because there's a limit as to how much I can cram in. Even so, it is the competition in which Liverpool were trashed 4-0 at home in one of the worst performances I've ever seen Liverpool play (echoes of the 6-1 defeat at Stoke). And, at the risk of invoking people's ire, dare I say that level of competition isn't as high. After all, even Spurs have done pretty well in the first stage.
Interesting parallels, let’s see how things pan out with Slot, signs aren’t good I fear
Sorry but for me that is a really really poor piece of writing and shouldn’t be anywhere near your Substack which is true quality.
The sentence ‘But at what point do explanations become convenient cover rather than genuine context?’
The explanations are genuine context and do explain why Liverpool’s season is evolving in the way it has. They are not excuses; they are facts and need to be treated as such.
So, for me, this chap is another clickbait doom monger who is not worth listening to when he points out that there are numerous explanations for the current predicament and then promptly chooses to ignore them.
Oh, and, of course, we’ve only just finished 3rd in the Champions League group stage, which he chooses to ignore in his note.
It's hardly click bait. I take your broad point, I think the explanations are context rather than cover personally. But I also think it's hard to argue with this paragraph:
"Liverpool are currently producing a points-per-game return closer to that of a bottom-half side. The football has grown predictable. The same issues recur week after week without meaningful adjustment. Patterns that worked brilliantly last season now feel mechanical, easy to anticipate and easier still to defend"
As such, it's worth considering if Slot is the right man for the long term, even in the context of the difficulties faced this season.
I don’t think slot is doing himself any favours with his pressers at the minute, regurgitating his previous comments about low block and PSG and I thought it very unprofessional to call out Ramsay the way he did, in private maybe but not in public. Big shout to Endo for his spirit last night, defending that corner with I suspect a broken ankle, a real warrior, perhaps that helped the team spirit in seeing out the game
The Ramsay thing didn't bother me. If he doesn't think he's good enough and isn't going to use him then there's not much to be gained by sugar coating it.
But the repeated low block and set piece references feel more damaging in that they create narratives that can't help.
And yeah, Endo was great.
It is some what clickbait. It is a long form article that he has editorial ownership over. There have been consistent articles and podcasts this season from journalists and interviews with players some even recent. His facts aren't incorrect around points scored but heavily not given full context around the margins in relation to our solid xG difference.
I think we may have different definitions of clickbait... if it were titled 'SLOT HAS TO GO AND HERE'S WHY' then I would say it was but to me this is a look at a parallel from history that *may* have some validity to it. I suppose, as Paul has suggested, whether it contains enough context is debatable. Perhaps not. But I don't think it's designed solely to draw clicks or induce rage or whatever.
I definitely hear you. I think it's been a hard season for all involved with Liverpool. There has been so much negativity it's hard to see past some of it. Thinking about this particular article I feel is more representative of other managers going to big jobs and not scaling up. Allthough points haven't been won the underlying numbers are good. As Paul pointed out with the right tools I think the points will surely follow.
I don’t think it’s click bait at all and was an interesting read.
That doesn’t mean I agree with everything in it, and I do think ignoring the relative CL success this season is unfair on Slot, but it’s not a wild comparison either.
Basically winning a title doesn’t make a manager bulletproof and nor should it.
FSG will make their own minds up based on every factor and we will see at the end of the season whether that means a new contract, a partial show of faith but without a contract, or a new coach.
I would say all are possible.
The end of the season will definitely be ‘back him or sack him’ as he only has a year left. If I had to guess, I’d say they’ll back him…
Sorry I forgot to add that context was around the impact on preseason and how that has filtered across the season
Apologies Andrew I just can’t go with this narrative that all blame lies at the feet of the manager.
Yes. It is a fact that the points per game in the premiership is not great. But it’s also a fact that the points per game in the Champions League is sensational. Truly sensational. So perhaps a balanced piece would reflect that and question why.
The answer to the why perhaps sits in the list of explanations given earlier in the piece which are then instantly dismissed to give the comparison between Arne Slot and the former AC Milan manager some context.
The suggestion and general narrative was that our manager has one plan, which is stale and been worked out by everyone. And yet the same clueless AS is now the only premiership manager to have defeated Sunderland on their patch this season.
The recent round table discussion with Richard Hughes really needs to be brought into these discussions in that the powers that be at LFC seem to be saying they know that they have not delivered for AS a balanced squad this season. We are toothless up font and I suspect that statistically you can prove that better than anyone. The Salah Gakpo contributions feel like they are non existent but the squad has no meaningful alternative to them. That cannot be AS’s fault as he is the defacto coach. Hughes, Edwards and Co recruit and provide the tools for him.
The round table discussion seems to suggest that they know the problems that sit within the squad and intend to deal with them but sometimes these things take a number of transfer windows.
Patience is what is needed to allow the new team to evolve. Such patience means not one or two games but one or two seasons. Good things take time.
So for me we should be championing what the team and manager are able to achieve this season given its context not giving air time to writing which tries to undermine them. There is so much of it out there and it all feels so self entitled as if LFC have a right to win or come close to winning the league every year.
What makes it great when you do win it is the pain and struggle and evolution to getting there. That’s where we are at right now. The pain, struggle and evolution period. Hopefully, Hughes, Edwards and all will stick to the path that their on and stay with Arne, despite the noise, and one or two years from now everyone will have something special to celebrate.
Apologies
No need at all to apologise. All views are welcome, we'll never all agree on everything. And to reiterate, I'm closer to your view of this season than Paul appears to be, but I've had doubts about Slot. I assume almost all Liverpool fans have at some point this season. It feels reasonable to me to ask questions regarding some of the tactical decisions.
But hey, it's a game of opinions and all that.